Issues: Oceans

Dr. Kathryn D. Sullivan

Pew Ocean Commissioner Dr. Kathryn D. Sullivan is president and CEO of COSI, a nationally respected center for science learning. Previously, she served as Chief Scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, where she oversaw research and technology programs in fields ranging from climate and global change to marine biodiversity and satellite instrumentation. A former astronaut, she served on three NASA shuttle missions, the first of which was aboard the Challenger in 1984, when she became the first American woman to walk in space.

Q: The Pew Ocean Commission's report describes serious problems with the health of the oceans -- over-fishing, destructive fishing practices, development, pollution and more. How did it get this bad, and how is that, as a nation, we've taken so little notice of it?

A: One reason it's so bad is because we've gotten very fragmented in our conversations about stewardship of the oceans. For decades now, we have centered conversations around individual segments of industry, or specific fisheries, or particular communities. Examined in that framework, it can be easy to miss the bigger picture. We see the stresses, strains, needs, desires and interests of each segment, area, group, or region, but it's difficult to synthesize it into a bigger picture.

Q: Is it too late? And what should we do?

A: No, it's not too late. It's certainly true that world's population is growing, and that the various strains on the environment are increasing. But we're at a point where we can see ways to steward marine resources that are smarter than what we're currently doing. So one very important thing we need to do is to change how we govern our collective ocean areas.

Q: What will the oceans look like in 20 years if we simply continue to do what we're doing?

A: Well, we run a very real risk that fisheries will look vastly different under any circumstance -- that there will be less abundance, that individual fish will be smaller, that we'll see a shift in species away from what we might have preferred to what just happens to have survived. Meanwhile, if we continue to increase crowding along shorelines, we'll make water quality in coastal areas less aesthetically like what drew us there in the first place. And, at the worst extreme, the end point we can see is something like what's happened to the Black Sea -- where we've seen disastrous loss of fish species, severe pollution from runoff and other sources, and corresponding damage to local economies dependent on the sea.

Q: What is it about oceans that appeals to you personally?

A: I've always been about exploring. Geography, maps and landscapes have always appealed to me, and I've always had a pressing desire to explore. Also, since I was a child I've been fascinated by grand human adventures. The two grand adventures going on when I was a child were the space program, and underwater exploration. It seemed like every issue of Life and of National Geographic included some incredible story about exploration in one or both of those arenas.

I discovered ocean sciences as an undergraduate, when I was compelled to take a science course as part of a general requirement! I showed a lot of interest in science as a child, but I realized in college that there was a chance to combine things I love -- learning how systems work, cool equipment, neat places, toys and gadgets -- and make a living out of it! On a purely human level, of course, the sea appeals to me for the same reasons it does to everybody -- the hot sun and cool water; the sand, shells, rocks, and critters; the roar of the waves; the drama of sea, sky and land; the sunny days and the fierce storms; and so on. So it was a combination of things that led me into this work.

Q: You've been working to protect the oceans for many years now -- your time directing the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration comes to mind in particular. What did you learn about the oceans during your time on the Commission? Was there anything that surprised you, or that really crystallized things for you in a new way?

It was a great opportunity to get reacquainted at a professional level with the broad scope of ocean science, particularly since it's been a few years since I was at NOAA. And it really was a wonderful re-education.

The other really valuable thing, something I honestly never have had a chance to do before, was to visit so many regions of the country to see communities, to talk with folks about their businesses and lives, to see what we're doing and how we're doing it, and to hear what people are worried about in different segments of coastal communities. You know when you have those conversations, you find a shared passion about the oceans. Different people see the ocean through different lenses, naturally. And one can find ways to draw a chasm between conservationists and fishermen, for example, but there are also sincerely held elements that unite them. They're both passionate about the ocean. They may disagree over the degree to which they think it should be used as a resource for extraction and consumption, or whether preservation should be the highest ideal. But they share a lot, too. And one of the things we hope to do with the Pew Report is to generate a more productive conversation.

Q: Many people probably think of the oceans and space in similar ways -- as limitless and inexhaustible. How does your experience with the space program inform your work on oceans?

A: Well, in the sea, humans aren't equipped to have the grand, spectacular perspective-changing view that you get from orbit. Space is terribly dramatic, simultaneously profoundly human and rather intellectual. On the other hand, building a picture in your mind of oceanographic details is almost entirely an intellectual exercise. You have to build it up in glimpses out of the fabric of your experience. And the other contrast for me is the absolute magic and wonder of the abundance and diversity of life in the sea. Believe me, there's no such thing around a spacecraft. A lot of people think of space as grand and inspirational, and the ocean as foreboding. The truth is that both can be quite foreboding and imposing, and both quite spectacular and inspirational.

Q: What should individuals to do to save the oceans?

A: I think the single most important thing is to sit down and write a two-paragraph letter to your member of Congress. Even if all it says is that you care about the oceans and want to be sure we're governing them in the best way possible. We so underestimate the impact of a caring letter, especially on a topic where the writer doesn't have an immediate personal stake. And the other thing is to look within your sphere of action and influence, and identify something further you can learn, someplace you can volunteer or someone you can help teach. We really need to improve our civic conversation about oceans, so that we can focus on the meaningful questions.

Photo: COSI

last revised 7.7.03